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Showing posts with label cbzb. Show all posts
Showing posts with label cbzb. Show all posts

Sunday, November 17, 2013

Engine rattling noises when starting engine

Source: http://volkswagen.msk.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=176433&view=findpost&p=3031289
Last few month I hear a lot about this VW fuckup. I knew this before but recently a lot of TSI owners bring this up.
If you happen to hear same sound like on video when you cold starting your TSI car, keep reading.
More videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRg7pEErjHQ (1.2 TSI)
Don't confuse with fuel pump fail - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgNkolvCR_U

The reason is chain lengthened.
As consequences: chain can jump few teeth and valves can meet pistons.

If owner come to dealer with this strange sound, they replace to new improved chain, tension and chain cover with protection from jumping. Even if guarantee is over they do it for free upto 3 or 5 years, I don't remember.

How to avoid it or to delay this issue? Yes, it will happen if your engine was build upto 2011-11-01, see attached TPI below to check your engine serial number if it has upgraded chain set. Always use hand brake when parking! Do not park your car with gearbox only.

Person, who works in VW dealership, advised about these life time of chain:
1.2 TSI - 30'000 km
1.4 TSI - 80'000 km
1.8 TSI - 120'000 km
2.0 TSI - 120'000 km

I can add only that I drove a little more than 30'000 km on my Fabia and I have no issue with it. New owner came yesterday at 53kkm - no issue yet.

Now, I found some assumption that chain condition can be diagnosed with VCDS.
ECU continuously adapting to chain length checking valve open/closed angles. If they exceeds limits - check engine will light up with error "P150D00 chain elongation".
After replacement you should erase adaptation values. There is a message from VAS tool that confirm this: "If the adaptation values are not erased after the timing chain has been replaced and/or worked on, damage to the engine can result. It is absolutely essential that you follow and observe the instructions and notes in the Repair Manual!".

Another interesting information I found that on new 1.2 TSI engines (code CJZB), they will use... toothed belt! :-) VW commented: "replacing the original timing chain mass given argument is that the belt drive is quieter, noise when driving is more quiet."

And we did some research.
Params to watch: Address 01 - Engine (J623-CBZB)
270 X_Intake_camshaft_signaledge_position_adapted_value_Edge2
271 X_Intake_camshaft_signaledge_position_adapted_value_Edge3
272 X_Intake_camshaft_signaledge_position_adapted_value_Edge4
273 X_Intake_camshaft_signaledge_position_adapted_value_Edge5
274 X_Intake_camshaft_signaledge_position_adapted_value_Edge6
275 X_Intake_camshaft_signaledge_position_adapted_value_Edge7
276 X_Intake_camshaft_signaledge_position_adapted_value_Edge8

Case 1 - Skoda Yeti, 1.2 TSI, DSG
1. Before chain change - angels are huge!

2. After chain change

3. 600km after chain change


Case 2 - Skoda Fabia (Mk2), 1.2 TSI (CBZB), Manual gearbox, 53'301 km
This is mine Fabia, the I did yesterday oil change service for him and we took readings. No rattling, normal values.


Case 3 - Skoda Fabia (Mk2), 1.2 TSI (CBZB), Manual gearbox, 46'606 km.
Friend from Haifa. No rattling, normal values.

Case 4 - Skoda Octavia (Mk2), 1.2 TSI (CBZB), DSG-7.
Friend from Beer Sheva. Hi did chain replacement just in case. No rattling, normal values.
1. Before chain change

2. After chain change


Technical product information (TPI) downloads:
TPI 2026513-8 - Engine rattling noises when starting engine (ENG)
TPI 2026513-8 - Engine rattling noises when starting engine (RUS)
Also related TPIs (not all with files): 2029226/1, 2024434/9 (2012-09-10), 2026741/3 (2012-04-17)2026513/5 (2012-10-01)

Threads
http://www.club-yeti.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=1347 (Russian)
http://volkswagen.msk.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=176433 (Russian)
https://www.facebook.com/skoda/posts/394900147269119 (English)

Other links:
VCDS params for Fabia

Saturday, March 26, 2011

Engine number and CBZB model characteristics

The engine number (“engine identification character” and “serial number”) is located on the engine directly above the joint separating the engine/gearbox.

In addition, the “engine identification character” and the “serial number” are indicated on the vehicle data sticker -arrow- which is located on the air guide pipe.
- As of letter “C”, four-digit engine identification characters are used.
- The first 3 digits of the engine identification characters refer to the displacement and the mechanical construction of the engine. They are type-punched together with the serial number on the cylinder block.
- The fourth digit indicates the output and the torque of the engine and depends upon the engine control unit.



Skoda 1.2 TSI 77kW engine characteristics

Reading material

1.2 TSI

1.4 TSI - sometimes similar (read smart!) but with more details comparing to 1.2 TSI docs

Update (2013-03-29)
Added engines overview and Audi SSP in English.
It's interesting, same SSPs about same 1.2 TSI engine but every make (Audi, Skoda and VW) has some more details. Example: at Audi you can see construction of charge pressure actuator and different states with thermostats, etc. When looking on all of them you build big picture. I think Audi has the best SSP than others.

Update (2013-11-17)