Monday, April 1, 2013

CBZB Cooling System

This is my try to understand how cooling on CBZB engine is working.
I saw a lot of sources and most of them has partial information so here I will summarize all I know.

Important! That is not official documentation, only my findings. Use it on your own risk please :-)

General notes about working on cooling system

Hot steam may escape when the coolant expansion reservoir is opened. Wear safety goggles and safety clothing, in order to avoid eye injuries and scalding. Cover the cap with a cloth and open carefully.
 - When the engine is warm the cooling system is under pressure. If necessary reduce pressure before repairs.
- The hose connections are secured with spring-type clips. In case of repair only assign the spring strap clamps via the → Electronic catalogue of original parts.
- Use pliers for spring strap clamps to fit the spring strap clips.
- Always replace seals and gasket rings.
- When installing fit the coolant hoses free of stress, without them touching any other components (pay attention to the marking on the coolant connection and hose).
- The arrows which are on the coolant pipes and the coolant hose ends must stand opposite to each other.

General info

1.2L TSI engine has two independent cooling systems which are connected and disconnected by non-return valves and a flow restrictor:
1. the charge air cooling system.
2. the engine cooling system which, in turn, is subdivided into 2 circuits.
Temperature difference between two systems can rich up to 100 °C.

Charge air cooling system



I think this pump very important as keeping cool charger that can go up to 900 °C, so let's go deep here.
Please welcome - the coolant circulation pump V50

In real life on my car it looks like this

This is current flow diagram (mostly the same for all engine production dates).
CBZB engine from May 2010 upto Nov 2010
Brown wire goes to "281 - Earth point 1, engine prewiring harness".
White with red tracer to "J496 Additional coolant pump relay". This relay is the only one on the battery.

1: 3B0 951 253 - Contact close relay (~$18)

Operational cases (not confirmed, from 1.2 TSI and 1.4 TSI docs)
- briefly, after each engine start
- constantly, after engine load request above 100 Nm
- constantly,  if charged air temperature (G42 sensor) above 50°C
- constantly,  if before (G299 sensor) and after (G42 sensor) charged air temperature difference above 8°C
- briefly, on running engine every 2 minutes for 10 seconds to keep turbocharger from overheating
- briefly, after engine stop for 0-8 minutes to cool turbocharger and reduce possible vapor locks cause of temp difference
- can be activated by signals from coolant temp sensor G62 or oil temp and level sensor G266 (only models with extended servicing intervals).

There is no PCM self-diagnostic routine for the pump. If V50 or relay J496 fails overheating can happen. This cooling system failure found be checking compressed air temperature before and after cooler (G299 and G42 sensors).

Engine cooling system

The separate coolant flows inside the cylinder head and inside the engine block allow different temperatures to be achieved in both of these components by using a thermostatic housing with dual thermostats.

The cylinder head thermostat begins to open when the coolant temperature reaches approx. 80°C. It achieves its maximum opening cross-section at a temperature of 135°C.

On the other hand, the thermostat for the cylinder block begins to open at 87°C. In this case, too, the thermostat achieves its maximum opening cross-section at a temperature of 135°C. With this configuration, the circulation of coolant through the cylinder block is suppressed during the engine warm-up phase by the closed cylinder block thermostat. The cylinder linings can therefore heat up more quickly, and the friction of the piston assembly can be significantly reduced while the cylinder head is cooled more intensively in order to provide better knock resistance.
There is temp sensor near thermostat 2 (cylinder head).

1: 03F 121 111 A - Coolant thermostat housing with thermostat (~$216)
4: 03F 121 119 - Gasket (~$4)
5: N 910 717 01 - Hexagon socket flat head bolt (Remark: M6X25) (~$1)

There are 2 temp sensors:
1. G62 - near thermostat 2 (cylinder head)
2. F18 - thermal switch in radiator. Octavia II has G83 temp sensor, not 2 stage switch like here.


Engine cold



After cold-starting the engine, the active coolant pump is activated, thus stopping the coolant flow.

If no heating is requested, the engine heats up very quickly. If heating is requested, coolant circulation is stopped for approx. two minutes. Both thermostats are closed.

The coolant flows through the coolant pump, the cylinder block and the heater heat exchanger, and then back to the coolant pump. Parallel to this, the coolant flows through the oil cooler.

Engine warm, a cylinder head thermostat opens



If the coolant has reached a temperature of 80 °C, the cylinder head thermostat opens. The main radiator is now integrated in the coolant flow.

Engine warm, both thermostats open


When the coolant in the cylinder block reaches a temperature of 87 °C, the thermostat for this circuit opens with the result that the cylinder is now incorporated into the coolant circulation system.

Thermal management

The task of the thermal management system is to enable the engine to attain its operating temperature quickly since this improves fuel economy and reduces exhaust emissions.
Thermal management is implemented by stopping the circulation of coolant during the warm-up phase:
- up to a coolant temperature of 90 °C at "salon heater off"
- up to 2 minutes at "salon heater on"
This is implemented technically by using an active coolant pump.
On top - Coolant circuit solenoid valve N492 - controls vacuum
1: 03F 121 004 E - Water pump with adhesive gasket (since 22.11.2011, was 03F 121 004 B) (~$208)
2: 03F 121 031 A - V-belt pulley (~$20)
41: 03F 121 713 - Control line (~$119)
42: 037 906 283 C - Solenoid valve
43: 046 905 291 B - Check valve (~$9)

Functions:
- coolant flow interrupted - coolant temperature of less than 30 °C, activated by vacuum.
- coolant is pumped - vacuum supply is shut off.

Special restarting characteristics:
- switches on and off for the duration of one second
- this cycle is repeated several times in succession
- the interval between cycles is approx. 7 seconds

Thus, the warm coolant from the engine mixes slowly with the cold coolant. When heating is requested, the pump is switched on immediately.

Vacuum activation.
The coolant pump is activated by the coolant circuit solenoid valve N492. It is operated by the engine control unit (this is computed by a map). The pump is activated by means of a PWM signal*.
However, the orifice plate is not actuated variably. It is only switched on or off.
If the valve is deenergised or fails, the coolant flow cannot be controlled since the orifice plate is kept retracted by the spring pressure (maximum coolant flow).
- Failure in off-state: the engine reaches its operating temperature more slowly.
- Failure in on-state: the coolant temperature increases to an unacceptably high level since the coolant pump is unable to feed in fresh coolant. The exhaust warning lamp K83 comes on.

Radiator fan

And this not less important device is not described in SSP docs.
16 - Radiator fan V7
24 - Thermo-switch for radiator fan F18

1: 6R0 959 455 C - Electric fan (Remark: 260/90W 390MM Siemens) (since 10.01.2011, prev was 6Q0 959 455 AD) (~$238)
4: 1J0 906 443 - Flat contact housing for single wiring (Remark: 3 pin, 000 979 228 E, 000 979 307 E)
10: 1J0 959 481 A - Dual thermal switch (Remark: 84-95C/91-102C 3 pin) (~$27)

Switching temperatures
Stage 1 - 84...95 °C
Stage 2 - 91...102 °C

UPDATE 2020-08-15
Below is thermal switch (position 10) compatible parts (price ordered high to low as of today).
Be aware that most of them has different work temperature ranges. Original is 84-95/91-102C, Hella has 87-97/97-102C. In my opinion, lower temp switch is better as it should keep slightly cooler engine but its not super critical.
Hella 6ZT 007 800-111
Hella - 6ZT 007 800-111 ~$28
Delphi - TS10292 ~$23
VAG - 1J0 959 481 A ~$22 (original)
Febi - 36563 ~$20
SWAG - 30 93 6563 ~$20
Vemo - V15-99-2006 ~$14
Metzger - 0915041 ~$14
Borsehung - B13129 ~$12
Facet - 7.5690 ~$12
Eps - 1.850.690 ~$12
Meyle - 100 959 0016 ~$10
Autlog - AS2014 ~$10
Vernet - TS2783 ~$10
Sat - ST-1J0 959 481 A
Fae - 38185
Jp Group - 1194000800
Topran - 109 772
Meat&Doria - 82701
Patron - PE20062
Era - 330230
Maxgear - 50-0176
Hans Pries - 109 772 755
Vika - 99590082401
Ossca - 02905
Elfull - ELS2030
Howyaa - 84081
END OF UPDATE

With out climatronic and climatic, fan get command from switch, proof

I have Climatronic, so there is radiator control unit J293 involved

And flow is different

Prev picture missing that 2,3 and 5 are positive leads, goes to fuse holder

The question is - how fan logic is working?
Radiator fan control unit (J293) connected to Climatronic control unit (J255) by 2 wires. The last connected to onboard supply control unit (J519) by CAN bus.

From Skoda SSP 25 - Climatronic I found 2 cases:
1. Air conditioning is off.
- first fan speed (90W) engaged at 84...95 °C (see stages of F18 above)
- second speed (260W) at 91...102 °C.
2. Air conditioning is on, pressure sensor G65 (old name F129) come in - pressure in refrigerant lines.
- pressure above 16 bar - second fan speed
- pressure above 2 bar and air condition was just turned on - first speed

Climatronic shuts off compressor completely when coolant temp come to 119°C and re-enable at 112°C again.

Changing coolant

For CBZB it's 7.7 ltr of G12++ or G13 with water mixture.
Also interesting that this engine has biggest capacity over others. Take for example CAVE that is way too super hot but has less coolant (and less 0.3l oil too!) - crazy, but good for us, CBZBers :-)
Draining and filling up coolant (PDF)

Coolant mixture

Many people suggest to use distilled water instead and this is true. Remember, DO NOT mix normal tap water with coolant. Tap water varies in pH, mineral, and chemical content and can adversely affect your new coolant and cooling system. City water may be treated with chlorine which is corrosive.
G12 consists of Ethylene Glycol and some additives. From this table you should see the following. Water is the main thermal transfer fluid in coolant system, when you mix water with Ethylene Glycol say for 50/50, conductivity drops almost a twice that mean mixture transfer less heat. So you need to find proper mixture. It's tricky because boiling point is also important. Refer for manufacturer instructions.
I would suggest in Israel (no freeze points) for CBZB use 40-20% of G12.


Sources
My old engine post with SSP materials - most images and text
Skoda Fabia II - Workshop manual - Power train - CBZB CBZA - 1.2 TSI (Edition 09.2012)
Skoda Fabia II - Workshop manual - Circuit diagram - Basic equipment, From March 2010 (Edition 03.2012)
ETKA (Skoda 2012-03)
ELSA Skoda (up to date)
Ethylene Glycol Heat-Transfer Fluid

Prices actual to post date and shown for original parts, there are cheaper replacements with same quality without VW logo on market too.

P.S. Not a April 1st joke :-)

41 700 km | 2Y 4M

53 comments:

  1. Thanks a lot for making this avialabe.
    It helped me understand the issue I was facing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are welcome!
      What was your issue?

      Delete
    2. Hi I'm also curious, I have problem because tempereture level is freaking out, once it shows 90 degrees celsius, you turn off the engine, strat it again and now the temperature is 110... do you have maybe some idea where should i look for the solution?

      Delete
    3. Try to stop the car, wait for 1 minute, read the temp and shut off engine.
      Start engine after 1 minute and check the temp - it shouldn't go up as you have cooling circuit running after after shutdown.

      You can also shut off engine, switch ignition on without starting engine and monitor your temp.

      Delete
  2. oh i forgot, and the fan is not starting at higher level of temperature

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You definitely need to fix this, its very serious issue.
      It may be just fuse or relay or faulty fan or something else.

      Delete
  3. Thank you for the detailed description. I also have a temperature problem with my 1.2 TSI in a Golf 6. The cooling water and oil temperature rise very slowly and never exceed 70 ° / 65 when driving. only if I switch off the ventilation and accelerate when stationary. When driving, the temperature display may drop step by step to a minimum. Tapped on Therostat and exchanged today, error is still there. It is also interesting that I switch off the engine at 65 ° C and when I start it again the display goes up to 90 ° C. Is that maybe the G26?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Lower temps (70-80) are better for engine life...
      But if it's an error, you better to check. Or may it's because of winter low outside temps. You can compare radiator temp OR point infrared thermometer to there temp sensor located and check readings from ECU.

      Delete
  4. ...sorry, i meant the G62 (Temp.-Sensor)

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  5. Hello is there anyone to help me.. Anyone know this problem or faced. Diesel get mix with coolant tank..

    ReplyDelete
  6. Hello is there anyone to help me.. Anyone know this problem or faced. Diesel get mix with coolant tank..
    Skoda Fabia 2010 1.4 Diesel.. Once again I'm telling it's diesel not oil..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Diesel mixed with coolant in coolant return hose.. and filled in coolant tank.

      Delete
  7. Hello Alexey, Thanks for this detailed notes. I have a little challenge and need help to identify the connection of my radiator thermal sensor.

    It seem to have been messed up by the old mech that work on the car. The harness has been removed and I cannot even identify where exactly to connect a new harness I just got to, can you please guide?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm not sure I can help remotely, sorry.
      If you have skills you can try to track harness by above electrical diagrams with multi-meter.

      Delete
  8. Hi Alexey, Thankyou this is really helpfull. It seems my problem is with the Thermal Management system. Maybe the Solenoid Valve. The temperature cycles repeatedly between 107 and 130C every @ 2 minutes, with the heater on until about 38Km when the engine runs normally at 93C. With the heater off from a cold start the engine overheats in about 12Km. Although I do not see an Exhaust warning light but a Water Temp light and alarm.

    I've just changed the Thermostats unnecessarily.

    This problem started slowly 6 months ago maybe once a month it would overheat, I found by turning off the engine for a minute and back on cleared the problem, even freewheeling down a hill, off for 30 secs and back on, sorted it. But now its every time until 38Km and switching the engine off and on does not sort it.

    I will say the dash temperature gauge reads true to 90c then untrue until there is a problem at 120C. I use a bluetooth ECU reader Carista with free app Car Scanner. This shows the real temperature and provides time to ease off and look for somewhere to stop if I need to.

    Next step is to check for corrosion to Solenoid contacts. Then to test it.
    Many thanks again, Alexander

    1.2 S TSi Touran 2011 70K miles 112K Km CBZB

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Maybe fan thermal switch is broken? Did you checked it works in desired temp ranges?

      Delete
  9. Hello Alexey,

    Nice write up

    What's is the function of the G62 vs F18. Do they both control the fan?

    Dave

    ReplyDelete
  10. Thanks for reply Alexey, Symptoms have changed a little, now if I turn on the heating full at start up, and drive gently for 38Km, there is no over-heating as far as thedash is concerned the dial stays ay 90 degrees, the ECU reader however shows the temperature pushing 100 degrees driving at no more than 50-60 mph. Easing off lowers the temp until the engine reaches operating temp around 38Km. Then it runs normally at 93 degrees.

    I have found a new solenoid valve 037 906 283 C on Aliexpress website for £8.50. Some places in UK charging upto £35 to £70.

    This solenoid, controlled directly by the ECU switches very quickly (with heater off) during warm-up, as you say above. As far as I know solenoids have electrical contacts and wear out, they never last forever, and my symptoms appear to show the occasional switch but not the fast switching needed during heater off warm-up.

    I have checked the 2 stage thermal switch (F18) only as far as watching the ECU temp, and observing the fan coming on and off during idle with the bonnet open.

    The coolant temperature sensor (G62)situated next to the thermostats, appears to give the ECU readout which I read through the Carista ECU reader, bluetooth and my Samsung S7. So I assume this is working as it should.

    As soon as the solenoid is fitted I'll give you an update, Dave I hope this answers your question too.
    Regards Alex

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    2. Thanks.

      Just that I am still not clear. If F18 is what Switches the Fan, then I think something else is switching my own fan as the harnesses to my F18 has fallen off long time ago and my fan Switches on when the engine gets hot, when it cools again after a while, it shuts and it comes on again after a while.

      It cycles like that. I was a ble to check that during the lockdown here

      Delete
    3. Alexander, with heater on full it better for cooling as you increase cooling circuit by adding additional radiator (heater inside a car).

      I have no statistic when solenoids should fail, but theoretically it's possible for contacts to wear out. I would remove dual temp switch and test it in controlled environment with hot water - you will need some temp probe and kettle. Or maybe, without removing it, if you have temp probe and hotgun - you can try to controlled heating in place and check its outputs, but be careful not to mess with plastic around.

      Delete
  11. I maybe wrong but, this is a computer controlled system. 2 circuits head and block that is joined together at running temperature. With a sub system integral to control temp of the turbo and super chargers, all sensors and switches work with the ECU in unison. F18 opens at 2 different temps situated in the rad so I expect the ECU to know about that, even uses the F18 to determine the temp of the rad. Maybe it's a fail-safe, last resort switch. It switches at 2 different temps so during warm-up and while running hot. Did someone else disconnect it having trouble diagnosing problem. If you drive gently for 20 miles with the heater on full, does the cycling hot and cold stop.? Like mine. Regards Alex

    ReplyDelete
  12. I maybe wrong but, this is a computer controlled system. 2 circuits head and block that is joined together at running temperature. With a sub system integral to control temp of the turbo and super chargers, all sensors and switches work with the ECU in unison. F18 opens at 2 different temps situated in the rad so I expect the ECU to know about that, even uses the F18 to determine the temp of the rad. Maybe it's a fail-safe, last resort switch. It switches at 2 different temps so during warm-up and while running hot. Did someone else disconnect it having trouble diagnosing problem. If you drive gently for 20 miles with the heater on full, does the cycling hot and cold stop.? Like mine. Regards Alex

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well.... I just do not see connected. Its a pre-owned car and never noticed it.

      Every thing works as normal. Recently, I just found a coolant leak around the Intake-Air pre-heater(036121188B) and now its totally broken as coolant doesn't stay in the car any longer. Once I fix this, I will try the heater thing.

      We have daily temperature of over 30 degrees (Lagos, Nigeria) and never have a need for the heater. Actually never turned on the heater but have to use AC all the time.

      The car is a VW polo 2014 with CLSA engine. Will have to look for a wiring diagram that suits.

      The interesting thing is that I do not see any dangling cables around the radiator to trace unto and this makes me feel that a connection to the F18 probably never existed, but having read up several articles and this, I do think it exists.

      ....and there are not so many Polo here. Not seen up to 10 in my lifetime....So still looking out for help

      Regards

      Dave

      Delete
    2. Dave, here in Israel we also have 30 and above all the year, except few months. Fix the leak, connect what is missing and let us know.
      CLSA as I understand is without turbo, but still coolant temp should be kept in ranges.

      Delete
    3. Hello Alexey, Yes no turbo charger on CLSA. Once I change the heater pipe (036121188B), I will do the other experiments and share.

      Dave

      Delete
    4. Hello All,

      I am back, fixed the pre-heater issue the the VW Polo CLSA engine. No more leaks. I also observed that the pipes to the heater had been by passed, the 83degrees thermostat had been removed as well as the the Radiator thermal harness I spoke about.

      I have replaced the entire thermostat housing and corrected the piping to the heater.

      The only issue I have now is the Radiator Thermal Switch wiring.... I need that which is compatible for my car. It has an AC

      I need to also mention that the car works fine as long as I turn on the AC, no colant spill from the bottle because the fan works by as soon as I turn off the engine, the coolant rises some times as the fan would not run any more to cool the coolant for just few more seconds


      Any help please?

      Delete
    5. Great to hear, Dave!
      I've updated the post with list of different brands for that switch. I see them on Amazon and eBay, hope it will help you finish the project ;-)

      Delete
    6. Thanks Alexey.

      I have taken note and have now got a new F18.

      Could you please guide me to how I can get the wiring diagram just like you have for the Fabia II. The wiring diagram here would have worked for me but my FCM is a different type (5J0919506). It truly has a 4 pin and a 6pin Connector but they have only 3 and 5 cables respectively and and so the Fabia doesn't match.

      I am on the lookout for the actual matching diagram to proceed with final fix. Can you be of help?

      Delete
    7. :-) it depends, start from forums.
      Also I got this label here https://skoda-fabia-israel.blogspot.com/search/label/techinfo
      I didn't check it recently, but erWin site with only $5 or so will give you access to everything that garage can have including schematics.

      Delete
    8. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    9. Thanks for this feedback. I almost did not sleep researching. I saw a couple of items on vwts.ru and thanksfully you have also recommended the same but have not seen the wiring that fits exactly. You have also recommended erWin. I think I would do that.

      Just a feedback to all. I think my car had a coolant bottle/cover issue. I decided to change the reservoir bottle this morning as I did not like the colour of the existing one. It is very dirty but looked like it was in very good condition.
      Took a drive after and with over 2 Hours of driving alternating between using my AC and being without it, no coolant spill off the bottle, so I feel that the coolant spill issues I had been having was due to the old bottle not able to retain pressure.

      After I turned off the engine, stil no coolant spill as against my previous experience.

      Will provide an update by next week as I use the car within a week to confirm this again.

      Possibly the car radiator doesn't use an F18 (not sure and I am open for correction) but do not even see trace of any cables not connected/dangling. No Radiator Thermal Switch harness dangling àny where.

      The fan works in the right cycle.

      Delete
    10. Hello All, Its almost a week and still don't have Coolant spills. I did not know that coolant bottle can be such a huge problem.

      Its good new for me

      Thanks

      Delete
  13. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
  14. Hi there Alexey and Dave, So a conclusion of my troubled CBZB 1.2 Tsi Touran 2011 Finally the vacuum solaniod 037 906 283 C arrived. Until now I have been turning on the heater full, but with no fan, during the engine warmup phase. The car has not overheated since.

    Just before fitting the new solanoid I tried several times to allow the car to overheat without the heater on during warmup.

    It seems the problem had cured itself. No more overheating. I changed the solanoid anyway 2 weeks ago. Still no more trouble.

    My conclusion is that maybe when I replaced the thermostats and replaced the G12 coolant with new G13 coolant, I would have cleaned the system and particularly the active coolant pump with the vacuum controlled valve that the solanoid controls.

    So I am not convinced the solenoid was the problem. Having a clean coolant with such a technical system must be a help.

    Regards all, Alex

    ReplyDelete
  15. I also have a problem, my electric pump doesn't work

    ReplyDelete
  16. Hi Alexey. I'm experiencing an over-cooling problem on my CBZB.
    When I drive by inertia with a gear inserted and using the cut-off function (no petrol injection), coolant temps drop drastically and go down, even to 68°C. At the same time, oil temps drop down too.
    I replaced water pump (OEM), thermostat housing (HELLA) and coolant temp sensor (OEM), with no luck.
    I also replaced the solenoid valve (Pierburg), with no luck as well.
    During cold star and warm-up phase, coolant temp go to ~90°C with no problem in few minutes. The over-cooling problem appears only while driving in cut-off mode.
    Could it be a bug in the ECU map?
    My ECU is remapped. Maybe my tuner messed up with something related to the solenoid valve function while engine is in cut-off mode...
    At this point I really don't know what to look for...
    Thank you in advance for your help.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi. What is ambient temperature? RPM when you drop gas pedal?

      Delete
    2. Actually 35-40°C during the day and 25-30°C during the night.
      The problem occurs even with hot day temperatures.
      Could a little coolant leak cause this problem?

      Delete
    3. Problem occurs in every RPM. It doesn't matter if at 1500rpm or at 4000rpm. As soon as engine enters cut-off mode, coolant temps (and later and more slowly oil temp too) start to go down.
      It seems like mechanical water pump is activated more than needed and it cools down the entire engine too much.

      Delete
    4. I'm not an expert, but this sounds strange.
      Mechanical water pump works all the time engine is working. Electrical, is so small that it can't drop so much temp.
      Maybe temp sensor is lying, but you've replaced it... I would try to get any ELM327 and plot RPM and engine temp over time. With this you can ask detailed question on forums or at dealership. At least it will show exact behavior.

      Delete
    5. Thank you anyway, Alexey! :)
      I already did many tests with ELM327 and VCDS. Both show the same thing: coolant temp start to go down too much as soon as I use cut-off mode.
      I'm always more convinced it could be a bug in the ECU map, since my tuner activated pops&bang and he messed with the cut-off map section.

      Delete
  17. Hi Jay Jay, I'm no expert either, but with my problem I came to understand that the Engine coolant management system is highly controlled by the ECU. I would test the radiator temperature at running temp of 90 degrees on the dash dial then when the dash dial reads 68 degrees check the radiator again.

    The dial on the dash is controlled independantly by the ECU and often differs from the temp reading via the ECU reader or ELM327 reader which shows the actual temperature the ECU is getting from the temp sensor.

    From 40 mph showing 90 degrees on the ECU reader. Accelerate hard to 80mph up a hill, and the ECU temp will show 120 degrees quite quickly, yet the dial will stay at 90 degrees, so as not alarm the driver.


    I suspect the remapped ECU.

    22 August, 2021 19:09

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's my same conclusion! I need to flash stock ECU file as soon as possible and test the car again.

      Delete
    2. In the while, I did the acceleration test you suggested and coolant temp never exceed 96°C.
      So at this point it could be a stuck thermostat as well.

      Delete
  18. Update on my previous post.
    I fixed my problem.
    It was a thermostat problem.
    Turbo-charger thermostat somehow dismounted itself from its position inside the thermostat housing and it was loose, so it wasn't able to close to maintain collant in the correct operating temperature range.
    So, in the end, I was very unlucky.
    My OEM turbo-charger thermostat was stuck in open position. So I replaced the entire thermostat housing with HELLA one. But it was defective since day one. And after less than 1 year I had to replace the entire thermostat housing again. This time I chose MAHLE BEHR.
    Now coolant temps oscillate between 82 and 92 °C, depending on ambient temp and driving conditions. Whe I idle for more than 10 mins, coolant temps raise till 96/97 °C and at that point radiator fan activate, which I figured out only now it was a thing which stopped to happen with the defective thermostat, cause coolant temps were too low all the time.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you very much for update!
      I don't think you was unlucky as from my perspective oil temp around 70C is way better than 100C :-)

      Delete
    2. Thank you too! It's a pleasure to share my experience and my knowledge.
      I agree with your point. A cooler oil and coolant would be better for their longevity, but unfortunately the ECU is programmed for adapting ignition timing and A/F ratio also depending on coolant and oil temps, which have a huge influence on performance and fuel consumption. With the defective thermostat, my engine was definitely cooler, but it was affected by a power loss and higher fuel consumption.

      Delete
  19. Hi Jay-Jay, this info is for others changing their thermostat's,

    Noticing my young inexperienced engineer trying to install the thermostat housing and having the stat's dislodging and the 'O' rings dislodging.

    I recommended putting a layer of thin silicon grease in the insets for those parts, enabling them to 'stick' there while the housing connecting surface was vertical not meeting.

    I guess this is a typical engineers trick.

    That will help any others who come here.

    Thank you for your updates, this is a great blog. Alexa

    Alex

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you for your suggestion.
      In my case, the defective thermostat housing had loose plastic clips which left one of the 2 thermostats totally loose and unable to work properly.
      A non-defective housing should have hard plastic clips able to hold the thermostat tightly in its correct position, so it should not be able to slide out with ease.
      Regarding o-rings, a new thermostat housing comes with pre-installed o-rings and I can tell you it's really hard to "dislodge" it, since the o-rings has its cavity inside the housing and it also has many little points where rubber is larger, so it fits very thightly in its position.
      It's a pity I can't upload photos and videos on here, otherwise I would have shown you the thermostat housing I uninstalled and why it was defective.

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