Champion Motors (re)call

No Fabia but still plenty to say :-)

Follow up on recent post about chain issue.
My guess that Champion Motors thinks that their car owners are stupid idiots and that is why...

A friend of mine called two days ago to Champion Motors - official VW AG importer in Israel.
He read few links that I've sent him regarding chain issue (before my post) and decided to check what happening in Israel.

Phone conversation:
Friend (F): Calling to customers service *6363.
F: -  Hello I hear strange metallic sounds on cold start from bonnet. It can be related to widely known problem with chain.
Champion Motors (CM): - If there is Check Engine lamp is on?
F: - No.
CM: - We don't know about any issues related to chain. The only known recall is about DSG transmissions.
F: - But in other countries is known issue.
CM: We will check and come back later.

It was in morning.
In the evening he got call from Champion Motors:
Tali (T): Hello. What kind of problem do you have?
Friend (F): I hear strange noises from bonnet when starting engine. Does chain replacement covered by guarantee?
T: We just got instructions 30 min ago about chain issue and this is covered by guarantee. Please, go to Skoda service for checking. Also, service garages not yet received this information, so if replacement should be performed and you have money issues, please call me 073-257-5236 personally.

Oh common...
Earliest TPIs dated from April 2012 and you just got instructions 30 minutes ago...
And services not aware of...

I say BULLSHIT! :-)

Update (2013-11-28)
Chain replacement without guarantee coverage will cost 2,900 NIS (~$800). Including VAT and labor. Checked in Skoda service in Haifa.

Another man recently did chain replacement on Skoda Yeti 1.2 TSI. Instead of 4 hours it took only 2.
They did not recorded chain sound as they usually do and send to Skoda for verdict.
And another chat with clowns from Champion Motors. When chain was replaced, garage called to customers service to ask about price and who will pay...
Customers Service (CS): - Is this a good client?
Skoda Garage: - Yes.
CS: - So all on us - parts and labor. Free for the client!

So if you a bad customer (like me, probably :-) - prepare 3 grands of new Israeli shekels... But as I know from forums, replacement not always helps and issue can come again after a while.

Engine rattling noises when starting engine

Source: http://volkswagen.msk.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=176433&view=findpost&p=3031289

Last few month I hear a lot about this VW fuckup. I knew this before but recently a lot of TSI owners bring this up.
If you happen to hear same sound like on video when you cold starting your TSI car, keep reading.

More videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRg7pEErjHQ (1.2 TSI)
Don't confuse with fuel pump fail - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgNkolvCR_U

The reason is chain lengthened.
As consequences: chain can jump few teeth and valves can meet pistons.

If owner come to dealer with this strange sound, they replace to new improved chain, tension and chain cover with protection from jumping. Even if guarantee is over they do it for free upto 3 or 5 years, I don't remember.

How to avoid it or to delay this issue? Yes, it will happen if your engine was build upto 2011-11-01, see attached TPI below to check your engine serial number if it has upgraded chain set. Always use hand brake when parking! Do not park your car with gearbox only.

Person, who works in VW dealership, advised about these life time of chain:
1.2 TSI - 30'000 km
1.4 TSI - 80'000 km
1.8 TSI - 120'000 km
2.0 TSI - 120'000 km

I can add only that I drove a little more than 30'000 km on my Fabia and I have no issue with it. New owner came yesterday at 53kkm - no issue yet.

Now, I found some assumption that chain condition can be diagnosed with VCDS.
ECU continuously adapting to chain length checking valve open/closed angles. If they exceeds limits - check engine will light up with error "P150D00 chain elongation".
After replacement you should erase adaptation values. There is a message from VAS tool that confirm this: "If the adaptation values are not erased after the timing chain has been replaced and/or worked on, damage to the engine can result. It is absolutely essential that you follow and observe the instructions and notes in the Repair Manual!".

Another interesting information I found that on new 1.2 TSI engines (code CJZB), they will use... toothed belt! :-) VW commented: "replacing the original timing chain mass given argument is that the belt drive is quieter, noise when driving is more quiet."

And we did some research.
Params to watch: Address 01 - Engine (J623-CBZB)
270 X_Intake_camshaft_signaledge_position_adapted_value_Edge2
271 X_Intake_camshaft_signaledge_position_adapted_value_Edge3
272 X_Intake_camshaft_signaledge_position_adapted_value_Edge4
273 X_Intake_camshaft_signaledge_position_adapted_value_Edge5
274 X_Intake_camshaft_signaledge_position_adapted_value_Edge6
275 X_Intake_camshaft_signaledge_position_adapted_value_Edge7
276 X_Intake_camshaft_signaledge_position_adapted_value_Edge8

Case 1 - Skoda Yeti, 1.2 TSI, DSG
1. Before chain change - angels are huge!

2. After chain change

3. 600km after chain change

Case 2 - Skoda Fabia (Mk2), 1.2 TSI (CBZB), Manual gearbox, 53'301 km
This is mine Fabia, the I did yesterday oil change service for him and we took readings. No rattling, normal values.

Case 3 - Skoda Fabia (Mk2), 1.2 TSI (CBZB), Manual gearbox, 46'606 km.
Friend from Haifa. No rattling, normal values.

Case 4 - Skoda Octavia (Mk2), 1.2 TSI (CBZB), DSG-7.
Friend from Beer Sheva. Hi did chain replacement just in case. No rattling, normal values.
1. Before chain change

2. After chain change

Technical product information (TPI) downloads:
TPI 2026513-8 - Engine rattling noises when starting engine (ENG)
TPI 2026513-8 - Engine rattling noises when starting engine (RUS)
Also related TPIs (not all with files): 2029226/1, 2024434/9 (2012-09-10), 2026741/3 (2012-04-17), 2026513/5 (2012-10-01)

Threads
http://www.club-yeti.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=1347 (Russian)
http://volkswagen.msk.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=176433 (Russian)
https://www.facebook.com/skoda/posts/394900147269119 (English)

Other links:
VCDS params for Fabia